Vital Views

Unknown Speaker 0:31
Hi guys happy pride. Welcome to a new episode of vital views UNLV School of Nursing podcasts. I am Janice Henriques. I am an assistant professor in residence at the School of Nursing. I am also a women's health nurse practitioner and a certified nurse midwife. Today I have guests with me and I'm just gonna go ahead and go around the table and let my guests introduce themselves. I'll start over here to my left. Rocky. Hi, Janice. Thanks for including me today. My name is rocky Rockstar, I am a Professor of Nursing at UNLV. I consider myself first and foremost today, an instructor, second a nurse. And third and I think most importantly, a human being.

Unknown Speaker 1:15
Thanks for having me. Sorry, let's go. I don't have a radio voice like that, you know, when I grow older, hopefully I do. Um, my name is Kevin bird. I am a community leader in Las Vegas. I'm also the founder of uncloak. And what that org is, is centered around the well being of trans men. So I do la training, bias training. And I also create family functions for trans men and provide them resources all around the valley. And so I am very happy to be here and having this conversation with you all.

Unknown Speaker 1:43
Hi, my name is Bree. Like the cheese. My pronouns are, she lay and I am a lawyer and a civil and human rights activist, and a social worker. And I am also a founder of an organization called unrelatable, where I open up space for people who feel most unrelatable and ostracized by the world.

Unknown Speaker 2:02
Well, welcome, everybody. I'm so glad to be able to sit at this table and have this conversation with you guys. Today, I wanted to have a conversation, somewhat natural conversation with my buddy, Kevin, Kevin and I have kind of a unique relationship, we actually met as patient and provider. So I would like to open this up, Kevin was happy to share with us about his experience and how we met. So if you could tell the listeners today, how that happened. Awesome. Um, I want to start off saying that my pronouns are he him, I am a black trans man in Vegas,

Unknown Speaker 2:37
the beginning of my org is now it's still a baby, it's only three years old. But at the beginning of org, I need resources I needed to find doctors to partner with. So I can start these conversations about how to treat trans men. I like to highlight that

Unknown Speaker 2:54
uncloak is a orde that shines a light on an invisible community. And so um, you know, that's, that's really how I

Unknown Speaker 3:04
went to go seek out some professional relationships. So how me and Dr. bestel met? Um, before I was Doctor anything, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 3:16
That's a good staple to put in there. Um, I have a group chat and I also host them in support group. Um, I always ask them about what type of resources do they need to, you know, lead healthy lives and to do it in safe spaces. And so something that came up consistently was a safe space to go get reproductive care, go get screened for STD, go get any type of reproductive care that relates to their ISP

Unknown Speaker 3:45
was caught a gender assigned at birth things. I always try to come up with better things, but that's what Dr. bestill was for. Um, so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna guinea pig, a few doctors, and I'm gonna write reports on them, and I'm gonna bring it back to the community. So Dr. bestel was my first stop. Um,

Unknown Speaker 4:07
I've gotta jump in here for a second questions. Did you say Doctor best though? Yes. What is best, though? I mean, she's my bestie um, we the day that we met in that doctor's office, we would not stop you say oh, she's laughing now. We cannot stop laughing at anything and every guy that I send to her or every trans man that I extended her up. I love I love I love Dr. bestie. So that's her nickname in our community. Kudos Doctor best though. That's your new nickname.

Unknown Speaker 4:41
was really only got approval. Yeah, I was really only for for coming to us. But it's been getting around I guess. All right. So I had guinea pig the facility that she was working at at the time and I got exceptional with some way above average care and we found

Unknown Speaker 5:00
that we just came in contact and we start building our own relationship. And you know, it blossomed into today. It's just great. We just can't have a straight conversation. No, because this man sits across from me and it's like, Hi, I'm looking for a safe space, hoping you can help provide that for me, because I'm working with community to help provide them a safe space for care. So that's really what happened. And I'm like, Cool. I'm Janice.

Unknown Speaker 5:32
I know you made that PC for our listeners. But

Unknown Speaker 5:36
you know, I did I did. I Yeah, cuz I really went in there ready for battle. Trans people come across health, you know, health care providers that you don't know what you're walking into there. Some are rude, some are isolating some expose you just because they want to prove a point that you are what they say you are. And so I was ready for anything. So I introduced myself, I said, who I was, I said, what I was there for and, and I honestly didn't even have to do all that without the best, you know, kind of thinking about this in the context of Pride Month, you know, what I think about what was pride back in 1969, all about many in the, at that time, the gay and lesbian community did not have safe space. So they would come to these these locales, these bars and different things where they could be themselves, they could have these conversations. And here we are today talking about you, helping to develop a safe space for trans trans men, specifically in health care. And you're kind of doing your own pre Stonewall as well, just making sure you're scoping out so others that can feel welcome and cared for and not have to go through all the things that the gay man had to go through in 1969, outside of those bars, exactly. Kudos to you. Thank you, thank you, I always try to say I'm a community leader, because activism scares me. I don't want to be in anybody's streets, I want to be the person that has sandwiches and water for everybody when they're done. But that's my way of giving back to community. But that was you on the frontlines. That's a very vulnerable thing to do to put yourself in a space where you did not know what you were gonna get, like you said, you were ready for battle, that is a battle like putting, that's your body, that's your mental, that's your well being and you put them on the line for these people, these other people behind you, right, these people that said, these guys said, I need to know where I can go to be safe, and you tried it out, even though you lucked up,

Unknown Speaker 7:32
you feel bad, you're

Unknown Speaker 7:35
not even going somewhere to feel safe, it's going somewhere that you'll be respected and receive

Unknown Speaker 7:43
state of the art health care that's needed for a your community, your you know, you who you are, and there's so many things that affect our health. And again, I gotta say kudos a second time, I think that's, that's, um,

Unknown Speaker 7:59
while I'm a hard person to accept compliments, and I think it's because my younger self would have needed somebody to talk to so bad. And so, um, I want to provide that for people that, that just need somebody to relate to not even have to connect all the way but just somebody to relate to. People don't talk about the

Unknown Speaker 8:20
high suicide rates amongst trans men. And so somebody can walk into a doctor's office asking for care, and get some type of treatment that they don't deserve. And that could have been the last day on on the earth. And so I, I take that with stride, being a frontline man in these professional spaces. And it took me a long time to get to, and unfortunately, what you've just described happens more often than not more often than not, it's, um, it's, it's unfortunate.

Unknown Speaker 8:54
And I think coming from the provider standpoint, I recognize that right? Like, we just know, overall, like health care for people who have melanated skin, that's it's a mess, right? So we, for me, it's being mindful of just that, that disparity alone for their outcomes, like, doesn't matter who's sitting across from me, it matters that they are a person, they need to be heard. And if they have a concern, I'm there to help them address that concern. Because it took an awful lot to have to get through my staff to get the appointment and then be sitting there with a drape over your lap to tell me about your

Unknown Speaker 9:30
right like for my friend to be like I'm a community person, like half draped that's what

Unknown Speaker 9:38
I mean, right? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:41
Super. So I'm like, Okay, let's cool like, you know, I really appreciate you, you know, like, and then I asked How the heck did you find me?

Unknown Speaker 9:52
Janice, I want to take a moment and also point out

Unknown Speaker 9:56
and provide you the kudos for providing that

Unknown Speaker 10:00
base because anyone going to healthcare and being draped is vulnerable. And on top of that for someone in the trans community like Calvin,

Unknown Speaker 10:12
to feel that immediately kudos to your, what I call the bedside manner to making Calvin say, Hey, Calvin, I'm here for you. I'm your health care provider. Let's talk about it. And I have a feeling that very quickly, you felt that, that safety, that that openness, that desire to get to know you, rather than trying to identify who you are, yep, um, but the safe space starts literally when we call and make the appointment. Because of me.

Unknown Speaker 10:43
Being stuck for so long, I have these certain habits that I still like to only talk to one person. So it's like, little things matter, like, how many times do I have to disclose that I'm trying to I can I just call and say I'm Calvin and I need an appointment. And then maybe we I talked to the doctor about the medical stuff, the HIPAA stuff, I shouldn't have to talk to somebody on the phone about what what I need. And then I mean, we can do some general things, but about what I need. And then I have to walk into the office and sign the paper in that waiting room, and then I'm gonna get called back. God forbid, I haven't changed my my name legally yet. And then I have to talk to a assistant. And then the assistant comes with comes with me in the room, and then we talk again, and then the doctor comes in. And sometimes they have a student. It's a, it's a lot is mentally draining and stressful. So what I loved about the quality of care, Dr. Bessel has provided for me was for one, I was informed that I can wait in my car. And I didn't even have to come to sign in, I could have called and said I'm here. They called me and said, Hey, your Your room is ready. They let me go through a backdoor, willingly. And then I met with one assistant. And then the assistant asked me questions. And I said, I would like to talk to the doctor only they said, Okay, that's fine. And I talked to one doctor. So I think it's all about consent, because then you can flip it and some people in the community love talking to everybody about it. So I think it's giving, giving people options is the most important thing you can do when you're giving a good level of care. I'm glad you said willingly about that back door. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 12:28
Already, you were like,

Unknown Speaker 12:30
willingly. Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 12:33
So, yeah, I mean, we,

Unknown Speaker 12:37
my staff had given me heads up, you know, like, when they meet when you made the appointment, I'm told, so they'll tell me we have a person who is making an appointment with you. And so they asked me, How would you like for us to approach that. So I'm like, Cool. Just tell them you know, like, ask them what will help them to get here safe and to get to where they need to be. So before I even met, Kevin, I'm like, great, find out what makes them feel comfortable and accommodate that for them. Because it's really, it doesn't cost me anything for the accommodation. And so that's basically you know, how that came to be where we got back to where we meet. And it wasn't to be dismissive to be like, cool, you know, like, what brought you in today, you know, like not to say that I didn't respect what was happening in what we were representing when we came to see me for care. It was like, alright, well, we'll, we'll get there. But let me let's handle business, right. Like, we've got to get down to why you're here because it took some some finessing to make it through those doors to get to this table to be.

Unknown Speaker 13:40
Not to minimize but Right, like the seriousness of it is its actual, it's there. Like, it is important for, for people to be able to access care, where they feel safe, where they feel comfortable, where they can continue, you know, to get the treatments, they need to get, you know, therapy, or they get the screening exams, it has to happen, because, you know, like, there's too many people that are not getting it, there's too many people we're losing. There's too many people that are sick, or they're, you know, spreading unfortunately, STIs, things like that. So we've got to help people be empowered and be able to, like, feel safe enough to come get the care they need. So I was you know, like, my impression was like, that's really awesome that you found me, this is just my baseline who I am because it doesn't matter who's in front of me. I talk to everybody in the same way. Like, you know, how would you like for me to address you today's it goes from, you know, Mrs. Smith, who is like 85 years old, because in that generation, it was Mr. Mrs. Whatever, right? Because that's how they would prefer to be addressed. So, right, like the names we talked about earlier, we talked about names people use or what they prefer to be, how they would prefer to be addressed. So it's the same same thing. So when we met like, it was like, okay, cool, let's go.

Unknown Speaker 14:56
But you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 14:58
you tell us like so when

Unknown Speaker 15:00
We had our, our visit. What about the care that you noticed that stood out? And what would you say like, if you were trying to reach out to people in our audience who are planning to be nurses or midwives, or nurse practitioners, or doctors or anybody that plans to work in health care, what about that interaction helps you to feel safe helped to be comfortable, because again, this is kind of my standard my norm. So I don't really know that what I'm doing is really going to be you know, but really, right like this is because I've instilled in myself, my habits, and the way that I practice is just how I practice it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, like, I'm gonna treat everybody the same exact way. So I don't really recognize that are different. I mean, I know I'm different. Like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 15:45
I'm good with that you kind of have to be different to be a midwife, but

Unknown Speaker 15:48
But I recognize that I am different, but I don't recognize what it was for you. And so with that said, it would be nice to share with the community like, hey, this provider did it this way. And it really stood out. So as you start to develop your practice, and you start to figure out how to work with patients, regardless of who, what, when or where share was the community, like what that was like for you and what stood out for you as far as how that was impactful? And what motivated you to share with the guys hey, go see this provider? This was like a safe space. What was that like? And what were those things?

Unknown Speaker 16:22
What really stood out was just the first interaction before I met you, what are you know, what I briefly already honed in on, but when coming into contact with you, I immediately felt just a sense of genuine like, just somebody who literally is looking out for, for you in in scene, how are you doing today? Like, okay, I see that you're ready for service, but like, how are you doing today? Um, did anything make you uncomfortable? What terms do you want to use? You know, when we talk about this, does this make you uncomfortable, you are doing so good that, um, we start coming up with terms together. And it was like, we need to write this in a medical book or something. So um, I think just having a conversation human to human and like, I love to say kindness is free. That goes a long way with somebody who is clearly 100% uncomfortable or not. 100 just uncomfortable in that space. Yeah, I mean, so like, I'll step back a little bit to explain that. So as a provider who works with people with uteruses, mostly women's health. With Calvin, I asked, you know, I use medical terminology when I'm performing these exams. What makes you comfortable? Are you okay with me using the actual proper medical term? Do you have a term that you use for that? And it was just a matter of like, asking, What are you comfortable with? Like, how can we address that today? I'm gonna use equipment. And so I honor consent. I also modified my exam so that the person still feels empowered when I'm doing these exams. You can tell me at any time to stop. And when they tell me to stop, I stop that that No, is no means no. Like, there is no going back on that. No, it's not that important. It's not that serious, we can work around that. Right. So that's what you know, that's what my best was talking about when we were describing, like medical terminology, and coming up with names for parts and how we describe like, even like processes, things like infections, or like, what's normal, what's not normal? We talked about those things. And we talked about, like, why it happens that way. And I think that, that, again, is my norm.

Unknown Speaker 18:34
And I know it's not the norm for everybody in this world. But yeah, that's kind of what, that's because you're awesome. No, but a lot of I'm just speaking for trans men, like a lot of trans men do not go to the doctors do not often go as they should, because they're nervous about what kind of encounters they're gonna get. So having those conversations where we're just simply expressing what makes you the most comfortable, like, I think we all have experiences where we go to the doctors, obviously, they come in real quick. They may or may not close the door, and then they're just checking off a list. And they go okay, to telenovelas and get some sleep, and then you're out. But I think it's, I'm just sitting there laughing with you about things, you know, that that I don't understand, or that, that we're trying to understand together, you know, that made a world of difference for me.

Unknown Speaker 19:27
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, everybody's not as goofy as me. I know that same.

Unknown Speaker 19:32
But, um, but I can say every, everybody wants to be treated like a human, you know, and so, you simply just saying, hey, is this okay? Or like, Is there is there another way that I can explain this to you? Or do you understand, you know, when I use this term, or like, Do you know what this is for, like, you know, those those tiny little things is like, a cure as the relationship between the patient and the provider because, especially for transplant, we want to go to one person and we don't want to have to start this

Unknown Speaker 20:00
This thing over and over and over again. So when you're dealing with them the first time you're saving them, possibly a lifetime of relief. I have a question. How do you, Janice focus on identifying how to best support someone who comes in whether they're trans or have different experiences are non binary? If they have a sex life, without having without them having to identify specifically, who they have sex with? Or how you can best support them based on who they have sex with? What are some ways that you do that? Instead of assuming, okay, this person has come in and like example, some people assume that people who live by night non binary, maybe they're with other people who are non binary, or maybe if they are

Unknown Speaker 20:42
assigned woman assigned at birth, and now the non binary that they don't have sex with men. And you know, there's a lot of assumptions that aren't true. So how do you navigate that? When you have people who come in, right, so for for my specialty, we collect sexual history. And so it's just being mindful of like, exposure points, and asking people, you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 21:04
and I also have to be very mindful in how I ask the questions, but they come in, and it's listed, so they don't have to hear me like, put it out there. They can actually answer it on the paper. But then if there's things that are questionable, I'll say things like, are you exposed to semen? You know, so that helps me understand, is there a risk for pregnancy? Or, you know, like, is there other risks for STI is transmitted in different ways? And then I'll say, usually, they'll tell me on the paper, if their exposure points or like, you know, they partake in oral or alternative jam is what's STI? I'm sorry, STI stands for sexually transmitted infection. Thank you. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 21:43
And so

Unknown Speaker 21:46
it's just being mindful of those exposure points, and then asking the questions, and or I'll leave it open, like, you know, would you would you feel comfortable sharing with me what your exposure points might be? So then I'll know because, you know, like, if I have someone who is by technical terms of Virgin has never had any penetrative type of intercourse with someone who produces semen, I'm not going to automatically go and do a swab in, you know, their vaginal region, I'm going to ask them, you know, like, what, where would you like for me to swab? Or where would you like to swab and I can supervise that, right? If you want to do it oral, let me show you how to do that. If it's rectal, let me explain that to you. And I can step out. So it's really empowering the person to let me know, like, these are my exposure points. This is how, you know, I would prefer that collection to go down and stand by and I'll leave it in a door for you, Janice, and what you know, when it's ready for you to come give it exposure points. I like that. Yeah, I like that, too. I also want to add, I love your languages, like Chef kiss. But um, you I love that you give the person options, because often we come into encounters with doctors, or lawyers, or anyone, and we see them as a person of authority, and that we have to do it this way. So the fact that you give the person options, and you, you come to terms and do it together, creating that partnership is also another way providers can create safe spaces for anybody. Yeah. And I recognize that right? Because I want you to come back, I want you to be able to be like, Alright, we'll see my bestie again, cuz

Unknown Speaker 23:24
I guess I'm fixed.

Unknown Speaker 23:29
I've got a question. Calvin, earlier, you used to terminate, it's not coming to my mind, but that you've found Janice now and one of your goals is to go to one doctor.

Unknown Speaker 23:42
Did you just happen to pick Janice and find a wonderful health care provider? Or did someone recommend I'm curious to how you knew that Janice was out there. Now the universe is a beautiful thing, you know, you asking you will receive

Unknown Speaker 23:59
guinea pig was what I did.

Unknown Speaker 24:05
I actually just went off my own insurance and seen what was covered in my in my network. And I started from there because I was planning to hit a lot of places. So I'm not a rich guy. So I started from there. And that was actually my first stop. And Janice, are you listed as a health care provider and one of your

Unknown Speaker 24:29
community or clients are transmitted? I mean, nope, there's nothing that advertises me as such. I really have all my, my alphabet soup and then a really short bio about me, my dog and the fact that I'm a 40 Niners fan. It's really that's all I could understand. You called the front office to schedule an appointment. And how did they know to offer you to wait in the car how did they know to offer you Did did you identify as a trans man and then maybe

Unknown Speaker 25:00
They went from Yeah, yeah, I went through the whole process. Um, so I actually got Dr. Bessel by chance, because I believe at that time, those two doctors that were working there. Um, so I went through the whole process, I wanted to see how they responded when I said, I want to change them. And did they even know what to do with that? I wanted and then I asked more questions like, Okay, do you guys how do you guys call people's name when they're in the waiting room, because another thing to point out is, it's nice to be called by your last name when you haven't changed your legal name. I don't want it. I mean, my name is not Jasmine. It wasn't before. But if my name is Jasmine bird,

Unknown Speaker 25:33
I don't want that screamed out in the facility. So I called I asked a series of questions to see to see their reactions to it. And then I literally took myself through the process as if I was just someone who has never encountered any type of any type of interactions with any type of providers.

Unknown Speaker 25:54
And what was that term? You use? guinea pig guinea pig. I was gonna say squirrel guinea pig. I'm gonna look that up. guinea pig.

Unknown Speaker 26:02
guinea pig just means like trial. Yeah, they used to use scientific they used to use guinea pigs for

Unknown Speaker 26:09
Mr. Scientists

Unknown Speaker 26:12
know, cruelty to animals. Okay, sorry. I've learned there's a lot of new terms that I'm still learning today. I'm open to it now. That's fine. That's fine. I had a guinea pig, but I never did do work on a guinea pig. Don't do. Yeah, don't do that. They have rights to

Unknown Speaker 26:31
do that. Absolutely. Well, listen, guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to spend with us today to share and ask the questions like I'm glad this was a safe space that you could share with our listeners. Hopefully, we'll be able to do this again real soon and talk about other topics so well, yeah, for sure. So for now, we'll sign out and we'll catch you later guys. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai